The current SR situation

As you are most likely aware the current situation with TRON SRs is getting attention amongst the community. I can assure you it’s also a concern amongst community built SRs/Partners and candidates.

From the data which has been gathered from various members of the community TRON currently have 13 nodes in the top 27 places. As members of the community we should be asking questions (this is not negativity). We all want TRON to succeed, we all want a decentralised, democratic fair system where we all contribute.

The main reason for me starting this topic is to get everyone involved with ideas on how we can get back the original vision. Many of the current SR/P/C have spent a long time building up their own communities, assisting new members, showing them how this awesome new technology works. The community should have a voice in a system which it’s slogan is " Decentralise The Web"

I hope a meaningful conversation can continue on this thread and I hope that a member of the TRON FOUNDATION will also join in. I look forward to ideas from you on how we can move forward with a community driven system for the community

6 Likes

I agree with your sentiment Dave!

In the latest interview with Justin Sun he did mention how he promotes capitalism in SR positions specifically regarding to Binance taking up most of the votes. This is fine, but honestly it’s not really working. I don’t see exchanges lining up to be an SR and reap the SR income benefits.

That leaves the community SR’s looking out for the best interest of trx holders and keeping the foundation in check. Decentralization. Although people wont complain as long as the price is going up we still need to bring these concerns as it’s not healthy for the image of Tron. I think Tron needs to take the words decentralized out of their vocabulary since they are doing quite the opposite. Let’s continue this discussion and hopefully many TRX holders can see that we are looking out for the longevity of the blockchain growth.

2 Likes

Things will not improve until the TRON Foundation stops saying that they are not involved in the elections while simultaneously voting in their own Super Representatives, paying rewards (bribes) to SRs to approve proposals and creating secret telegram groups that excludes anyone who is voicing concerns against their proposals. Some community SRs have been trying to change this for months but the Foundation is not willing to solve these problems.

I hope the TRON Foundation chances their mind and starts cooperating with the other SRs instead of working against them. Because at this point there is no reason for any new SR to participate in the elections knowing that they are at a disadvantage and not receiving any support from the Foundation that is supposed to support the community and attract new SRs.

3 Likes

I think instead of us only complaining about how Tron is not doing things right, we need to start suggesting real solutions on how we can make tron better when in comes to the SR issue and everything else. Just saying TRON is bribing other SRs and such will not get us any where far. I like Misha’s solution via twitter " A scenario where Tronfoundation has enough SR positions to securely stabilize the network long-term, while allowing reliable community SRs, exchanges & other entities voted in by the community & Tron Foundation itself is in the best interest of the TRON blockchain as a whole.". This can be expanded. We have to figure out how to keep the network stable when other community SRs are not running nodes or doing their job, We need to make sure all these SRs have faces or twitter accounts where community can contact them if they need to. How do we handle large SRs like Binance or TRON and its partners. We should not alienate anyone since we want this network to be decentralized. Anyway long story short, lets write down solutions or proposals to solutions. Have something drafted that we can push to the foundation to take into consideration. Currently as community we are just all over the place and I dont see us getting anyway if we continue this path. I think pushing TRON will be easier if we have a solution to present.

4 Likes

Great feedback, I agree that ideas need to be put forward and the “politics” are a separate issue which still does need addressing.

As for solutions one of the best ideas put forward was that as soon as one node upgrades a countdown timer begins, all other nodes must update before the end of that timer, any not updated will forfeit their place to the next SR/P. It’s a simple solution which could be effective.

3 Likes

Great to see the SR discussion coming out in the open and not only in SR back-channels. As I wrote on twitter the other day, I am by the conviction that “A scenario where Tronfoundation has enough SR positions to securely stabilize the network long-term, while allowing reliable community SRs, exchanges & other entities voted in by the community & Tron Foundation itself is in the best interest of the TRON blockchain as a whole.”

In order to have a competitive network in terms of speed, scalability and new technological adoption, the Tron blockchain needs to be able to upgrade itself swiftly, easily and with consensus between the Tron Foundation and its community SRs. However, having so many SRs owned by or affiliated with the Tron Foundation might perhaps stabilize the operational requirements of the blockchain in the short term, but it works against what Tron is trying to achieve in the long term (that is to “Decentralize The Web”) and further erodes Tron’s reputation in the wider crypto sphere as its widely perceived as centralized with so many nodes directly controlled by TF.

I am all for having an initial hands-on approach by the Tron Foundation to ensure the public chain grows, improves, is stable & reliable - but this can also be achieved by empowering community SRs who have proven to run reliable nodes, have high block productivity, timely upgrades their nodes and develop interesting projects/products/services on Tron (outside the gambling industry) that contribute positively to the Tron ecosystem as a whole. There are amazing community SRs who serve different purposes and build promising products for the Tron ecosystem, such as:

TronWalletMe - Multi-chain Crypto Wallet
BitGuild - Building & maintains TronTrade, excellent Tron DEX
BeatzCoin - Building & develops VibraVid, free music & video content platform
CryptoChain - Sobreira is probably one of the top blockchain builders out there
Intergalactic Gaming - Building IGGalaxy, esports platform
TronSociety - Educating Tron users
Sesameseed - Staking platform, mutli-chain

The Tron Foundation has a great opportunity to work closely with these & other community SRs and support them in a more profound way - these are SRs who have shown patience and persistence in contributing to the Tron ecosystem as a whole, while developing their unique products, often with very little funding and minimal or non-existent support from TF. Doing this would not only serve to grow the Tron network and make it more competative & stronger, but also make it more decentralized, global and appealing in the eyes of the wider crypto sphere.

Would love to hear your thoughts and input.

6 Likes

Its not a secret that I have been critical of our SR’s as of late, but that doesn’t mean I dont support SR’s and what we are trying to accomplish as a community. I just wanted to get this off the way.
The engagement and interest in solving issues is high, thats admirable and will be the foundation of something amazing.

Now, when it comes to the problems and solutions, this is not the first problem we face and will not be the last problem we need to solve to move forward. The questions I have that I dont seem to find an answer to is :

  1. Is this the right time for TF to let go abit so we can move more towards being fully decentralised or will it be a security issue for the network if they are ‘‘less involved’’ as of now ?
  2. Will collaborations within the the network of SR’s violate any agreements ?

If the answer to both questions is NO, then whats stopping SR’s from forming an alliance for the greater good of the network? and within the union there is millions of solutions to both please all parties and at the same time bring forward the best ideas

Some of the things possible/beneficial can be:

  • Internal voting processes to get the best ideas and representative to the front before going to The Tron Blockchain and ask for votes from the community
  • The cheer of work that goes into being an SR will be shared and that will leave more time for development and grow for the different SR’s within the union etc.
  • It will be simpler for the community to vote when ideas are shared and the SR’s are united under the same roof.

It’s possible that Im thinking all wrong when it comes to this situation, but unity have never failed and many brains together looking for solutions tend to work alot better then a few brains split all over the place :blush:

5 Likes

Currently i see 3 different kinds of SRs:

  • Community SR

  • TRON foundation SR

  • Enterprise SR

I think the 3 are needed and instead of fighting between them we have to think about common goals and ways to ensure the “3 TRON forces” are accountable pushing each other to improve.
My proposal is to limit participation in the SR spots as follows:

40%= Community SR( including independent projects, developers, educators, these SRs fight for being the community voice)
30%= Tron foundation SR( like it or not we need TRON foundation resources, devs and marketers, they are committed with the network and they need of course a funding mechanism, having some SR spots guarantees just that)

30% = Enterprises using TRON (exchanges, IT giants and any other company using TRON, BitTorrent,etc)

How do we ensure this % is respected?
Easy: change the current voting system to force by default to spread your votes into those 3 categories. Users need to assign 40% to a community SR(or multiple) they believe in, 30% to the TF projects they like the most,and 30% to the companies they see as more beneficial to the network long term vision.
Of course if we do this we will probably see our voting rewards reduced but this is a needed to keep a balanced representation between the 3 TRON Forces :wink: I’m more than happy to donate some TRON power to the cause !

1 Like

It’s so easy to write. Which instance decides who is Community SR and who is Enterprise SR. No natural person can act as a decision maker in a decentralized network. As long as ownership of money (TRX) decides who SR is, money will also decide who SR is. This is not only true for TRON, but also for many other mining chains.

Missing updates:
I believe that an automatic punishment mechanism for unupdated nodes must be implemented.
My suggestion was: The first one to update automatically sets an expiration time as in a proposal. If the expiration time has passed, all votes of the not updated SR’s will be set to 0 and consequently the next place will be entered as SR. (#28)

Voting rights:
A not yet completely worked out idea is also to set a 2nd voice which to a certain extent co-decides. If you can make it tamper-proof.

A development also includes problems that must be solved.

@Crypto_Jaeger I believe money will always be the decisive factor when it comes to voting, even in decentralised manners. Its as easy as say 4 whales with huge bags favours an SR and put all their money in votes for that SR, they will single handedly vote them in regardless of what they represent. Correct me if Im wrong, but there is no cap on how much you can put on a single vote, And if thats the case then I’d rather have TF controlling the majority of SR’s and leading us to success than a few huge whales that are only interested in their own gain like its the case with Steem Blockchain, and they claim to be decentralised.

I agree with your idea about missing updates ( I think @mishalederman also suggested something similar ) and the voting rights idea sounds exciting.

I believe finding a solution in cooperation with TF and JS is the best way to go, we have alot of good community SR’s that are capable of governing the Tron Blockchain in cooperation with TF.

1 Like

The problem, as I see it on steem, is the ninjamine blew the math ratios out.

Absent the <50 accounts that made problems by abusing their stake our math would have favored smaller accounts more.
The community would have controlled with purchased stake, that is not how it played out.

In the interests of control, the earliest adopters ninjamined and some sucked out as much value in btc as possible.
They are still selling to suppress the price, it is all found money to them.

Until that ninjamined stake is sold, it hangs over us like the sword of Damocles.

It appears that the solution may be to change witness voting from full sp on 30 accounts, to full sp divided by up to 30 witness votes.

But, nothing has been decided by the witnesses, yet.

1 Like

Firstly this forum is awesome, thanks for building it.

TRON Mainnet was launched in June 2018. It has proven itself to be robust and reliable. TRON Foundation are partly to thank for this, I agree wholeheartedly that is perhaps time for them to “let go” of their nodes, however I would prefer if the punishment/demotion mechanism was implemented first. Let’s be considerate and respectful if we ask TRON Foundation to agree to phase out their SRs.

I need to ask - How would Tron Foundation submit a proposal without running at least one capable node?

I have no problem with enterprise SRs. They are actually powerful allies to have, even it may seem unfair to smaller entities who wish to step up to join them. But they can sometimes appear to be elusive on the community front-line. e.g. Binance, they run a strong node but they don’t talk to the TRON community about TRON matters.

From a community perspective, how do they know what a good SR even is or how they are performing? They can see rankings, rewards and productivity. Maybe there is something we can do to tackle this? I’m not sure about the capabilities of this site, but is there the capability for people to review SRs in some way? Asking them some questions to get scores e.g. how many stars would you give this SR for X? Is this even a good idea?

3 Likes

Binance, the strongest representative among the SRs, is involved in various channels and is also up to date in terms of information.